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Posted on April 3, 2002

According to an article published at the World Zionist Organization's (WZO) website:

"REMARKABLY, the Khazars, a people of Turkic origin, converted to the Jewish religion sometime in the 9th century, beginning with the royal house and spreading gradually among the general populace. Judaism is now known to have been more widespread among the Khazar inhabitants of the Khazar kingdom than was previously thought. In 1999, Russian archaeologists announced that they had successfully reconstructed a Khazarian vessel from the Don River region, revealing 4 inscriptions of the word "Israel" in Hebrew lettering. It is now the accepted opinion among most scholars in the field that the conversion of the Khazars to Judaism was widespread, and not limited merely to the royal house and nobility. Ibn al-Faqih, in fact, wrote "All of the Khazars are Jews." Christian of Stavelot wrote in 864 that "all of them profess the Jewish faith in its entirety." Click here to view the full article and links to the original source.

Source: Atlas of World History, p. 108

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Posted by Brent on November 13, 2013 #153077

Newest genetic paper (released on October 8, 2013) by a genetic research team led by Dr. Martin B. Richards of the University of Huddersfield in the UK "A substantial prehistoric European ancestry amongst Ashkenazi maternal lineages" in the journal Nature Communications.
Nature Communications 4, Article number: 2543 doi:10.1038/ncomms3543
Received 11 July 2013 Accepted 04 September 2013 Published 08 October 2013

Dr. Martin Richards (and company) say the European Jews primarily descend from European converts (on the maternal side) which he traces to Roman Empire era conversions in Southern Europe (specifically Italy). Other based researchers: like Dr. Avshalom Zoossmann-Diskin, Steven M. Bray et al. 2010, and even Harry Ostrer have argued the same. Dr. Eran Elhaik of Johns Hopkins University has proven the Khazarian hypothesis. On this new study Elhaik says on Richards' work

Eran Elhaik, a research associate studying genetics at the Johns Hopkins University School of Public Health, is split. He agreed with the study authors that the study rules out a Near Eastern origin for many mitochondrial lineages of the Ashkenazis but disagreed that it rules out a Khazarian contribution. “Jews and non-Jews residing in the regions of Khazaria are underrepresented, which biases the results toward Europe as we have seen in many other studies,” he said in an e-mail to The Scientist. Elhaik recently concluded from autosomal DNA that European Jews did, in fact, have a Khazarian background.

There was no supposed "exile" in 70 CE as Professor Shlomo Sand showed. On that see Jeremiah Haber's article entitled "No, Rivkele, The Jews Weren't Driven into Exile by the Romans" and the work of historian Jacob Yuval entitled "The Myth of the Jewish Exile from the Land of Israel: A Demonstration of Irenic Scholarship" irenic means Christian here and is referring to the idea of a supposed 70 CE "exile" by the Romans being a Christian developed myth to INSULT Jews actually!
Posted by Brent on January 18, 2013 #148395

Newest article of all, confirming the results of the now definitive study showing Ashkenazi Jews are primarily Khazars! Dr. Eran Elhaik "The Missing Link of Jewish European Ancestry: Contrasting the Rhineland and the Khazarian Hypotheses" Genome Biol Evol (2012) doi: 10.1093/gbe/evs119 First published online: December 14, 2012

January 17, 2013 AFP: Gene study settles debate over origin of European Jews

Quote- PARIS — Jews of European origin are a mix of ancestries, with many hailing from tribes in the Caucasus who converted to Judaism and created an empire that lasted half a millennium, according to a gene study.

The investigation, its author says, should settle a debate that has been roiling for more than two centuries.

Jews of European descent, often called Ashkenazis, account for some 90 percent of the more than 13 million Jews in the world today.

end quote.
Posted by Brent on January 5, 2013 #148246

And also just to conclude there was NO supposed "exile" in 70 CE as it seems "rayberau" was trying to imply in the start of his comment. NO legitimate historian (Jew or non-Jew) believes in this myth of a supposed "Jewish exile"; see historian Israel Jacob Yuval's "The Myth of the Jewish Exile from the Land of Israel: A Demonstration of Irenic Scholarship" that Professor Shlomo Sand cites prominently in his best-selling/award winning 2009 book "The Invention of the Jewish People". The Palestinians are the Judeans.

Again historian Jacob Yuval notes and demonstrates in his scholarly writing that the myth of a supposed "Jewish exile" (whether it is claimed to have been by the Romans in after either 70 CE or by the Romans after the Bar Kokhba rebellion of 132 CE- 135 CE) is merely a myth that was actually started by Christians (chiefly in Europe to try "explain" the presence of followers of the religion of Judaism with them in Europe) and which from there LATER entered (via Christian thinking) into Jewish thinking and in modern times of course meshed very well with Zionist ideology (of supposedly "returning" or making "aliyah" to the alleged "long lost homeland"). When in actually historian Professor Shlomo Sand notes on page 134 of his "The Invention of the Jewish People" that "Israel Jacob Yuval, a historian at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, went further. He proposed to show that the renewed Jewish myth about the exile in fact arose fairly late, and was due mainly to the rise of Christian mythology about the Jews being exiled in punishment for their rejection and crucifixion of Jesus." So in actuality Zionists are taking what was originally an anti-Jewish Christian developed myth and using it for their own modern purposes!
Posted by Brent on January 5, 2013 #148244

"rayberau", putting aside geneticist Dr. Avshalom Zoossmann-Diskin says most Ashkenazi Jews appear to be descendants of CONVERTED Romans in Italy "The origin of Eastern European Jews revealed by autosomal, sex chromosomal and mtDNA polymorphisms" dated October 6, 2010 at biology-direct . com, your claim that the Khazar hypothesis supposedly has "no basis" is in contradiction to the most recent academic study on the issue by Johns Hopkins University geneticist Dr. Eran Elhaik entitled "The Missing Link of Jewish European Ancestry: Contrasting the Rhineland and the Khazarian Hypotheses" at oxfordjournals . org! The info of Dr. Eran Elhaik's study which was accepted into the respected peer-reviewed scientific journal "Genome Biology and Evolution" in December 2012 (making it the most recent study on the issue again!)


Dr. Eran Elhaik "The Missing Link of Jewish European Ancestry: Contrasting the Rhineland and the Khazarian Hypotheses" Genome Biol Evol (2012) doi: 10.1093/gbe/evs119 First published online: December 14, 2012

Dr. Eran Elhaik's summary is "Our findings support the Khazarian Hypothesis and portray the European Jewish genome as a mosaic of Caucasus, European, and Semitic ancestries, thereby consolidating previous contradictory reports of Jewish ancestry. We further describe major difference among Caucasus populations explained by early presence of Judeans in the Southern and Central Caucasus. Our results have important implications on the demographic forces that shaped the genetic diversity in the Caucasus and medical studies."

And one should see the recent "haaretz" article on Dr. Eran Elhaik's work "Ofer Aderet: The Jewish People's Ultimate Treasure Hunt"

"In his search for Jewish ancestry, researcher Eran Elhaik says he has discovered that Jews originated in the Khazar empire, not the kingdom of Judah." (mirrored from the original at "haaretz" on salem-news . com website) the relevant quotes from there.

"The bottom line, he claims, is that the 'genome of European Jews is a mosaic of ancient peoples and its origin is largely Khazar.'
...
Elhaik, who disputes Ostrer's study, claims that previous research on the subject 'has NO empirical basis, sometimes even CONTRADICTS ITSELF and offers conclusions that are simply NOT convincing.'

'It is my impression,' he adds, 'that their results were written BEFORE they began the research. First they shot their arrow - AND THEN they painted the bull's-eye around it.'

And to conclude "haaretz" journalist Ofer Aderet himself notes the following about Dr. Eran Elhaik's latest research supporting the Khazar hypothesis: "One of the scholars who reviewed the article before its publication described it as more profound than all the previous studies on the ancestry of the Jewish people."
Posted by RayBerAu on January 3, 2013 #148227

This theory has no basis. The clear historical record of Arab, Jewish and European historians traces Jewish migration from the Middle East to Europe via the Roman roads, in particular the Amber Road along which Jews settled in every city all the way to Central Europe, and the Western Road up the Roman Peninsula and over the Alps to France (from where later persecution pushed the English and French Jews eastward to join up with the Ashkenazic Jews of Central Europe. There is NO such historical record or clear archaeological record of Jewish settlement going westward from Central Asia to Eastern Europe. All evidence points in the opposite direction. If the Khazars, whose language was close to Turkish, were the source for European Jews, then why did Yiddish evolve as a European Jewish language llinguistically close to German and Hebrew, but not to Turkish or any other Central Asian language? This theory was popularized in 1976 by Arthur Koestler in his book, "The Thirteenth Tribe." It again was revived in 2008 with the publication of Shlomo Sand's "The Invention of the Jewish People". Both authors rely on the writings of Professor D. M. Dunlop of Columbia University, the most authoritative historian of the Khazar kingdom who used Arabic, Hebrew and Russian sources, as well as documents from the Cairo Geniza, to reconstruct the Khazars' history.
His conclusion that there is "little evidence to substantiate the theory" is the one important quote that Koestler, Sand and other proponents of this theory fail to mention! Jewish migration into Central Europe is clearly evident right along the Amber Road from the Middle East and nowhere along the roads directly from Central Asia. There is simply no historical or archaeological evidence for this theory. Jews, Like the Palestinians have genetic inheritance from all the conquering tribes of the Middle East as well as from all the areas they have dwelt in - there is no such prominent "Khazar gene". We know from Arab, Jewish and Russian historians that only a small number of Khazars in the court of their king converted to Judaism, so how could they become the basis for the masses of European Jewry? There is no verification of Ibn al-Faqih's quote, in fact Arab historians in the 10th century quoted by Prof. D. M. Dunlop reported that most of the Khazars population were Muslims and that only the king and the nobles immediately serving him converted.
Posted by Brent on December 8, 2012 #147738

In response to "Jon". Ashkenazi Jews have been shown to be mostly simply Europeans (as one would assume) GenomeWeb News June 3, 2010 "Ashkenazi Jews seem to be more genetically similar to non-Jewish populations in Northern Italy, France, and Sardinia. Meanwhile, Jewish populations in Iran and Iraq tended to cluster closer to non-Jewish Palestinian, Druze, and Bedouin populations than to Europeans."

See studies like: biology-direct . com geneticist Dr. Avshalom Zoossmann-Diskin, Ph.D. "The origin of Eastern European Jews revealed by autosomal, sex chromosomal and mtDNA polymorphisms" published on October 6, 2010

pnas . org Bray et al. 2010 "Signatures of founder effects, admixture, and selection in the Ashkenazi Jewish population" showing that Ashkenazi Jews cluster closer to Europeans ("Tuscans, Italians, and French") than to Middle Easterners; and saying Ashkenazi Jews have European "admixture" ranging (in that study) from 35% to 55% (other studies go as high as 60%).

As for Khazars, Ashkenazi Jews have haplogroups R1a1 (R-M17), Q, and G2c that are thought to be Khazar inputs into these Jews. And most recently in August 2012 geneticist Dr. Eran Elhaik, Ph.D. of the esteemed School of Medicine of Johns Hopkins University released his study "The Missing Link of Jewish European Ancestry: Contrasting the Rhineland and the Khazarian Hypotheses" at arxiv . org which is owned by Cornell University.
Posted by Jon on November 23, 2012 #147508

Jews have nothing to do with Khazars. Khazars were an asiatic turkic people, in fact many of their descendants still survive to this day in Kazakhstan. They all look very East Asian.

That being said; people from the Caucasus region are not even white. Many of them look like lighter complexioned arabs and persians. They look similar to Jews sometimes because both caucasians and jews have middle eastern and european admixture.

Think of Jews as a mixture between Semitic Levantines and 'White' people.
Posted by Brent on August 28, 2012 #145811

Other relevant information is that among "Ashkenazi Levites" 52% of these Ashkenazi Levites have a genetic signature called haplogroup R1a1 that is from the Caucasus region (particularly the modern nation of Georgia, capital Tbilisi) and is thought by most erudite scholars to be associated with the Khazars. And then you also have haplogroup Q, which is often referred to as another "smoking gun" of Khazarian ancestry in Ashekanzi Jews in particular (as many Ashkenazis have this haplogroup Q, haplogroup Q being associated with Central Asia and even Siberia; some Native Americans actually have a form of haplogroup Q from Siberia!)

Also two other important studies; first from Bray et al. 2010 at pnas.org (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America); "The fixation index, FST, calculated concurrently to the PCA, confirms that there is a closer relationship between the AJ (Ashkenazi Jews) and several European populations (Tuscans, Italians, and French) than between the AJ (Ashkenazi Jews) and Middle Eastern populations (Fig. S2B). This finding can be visualized with a phylogenetic tree built using the FST data (Fig. S2C), showing that the AJ (Ashkenazi Jewish) population branches with the Europeans and not Middle Easterners. Two recent studies performing PCA and population clustering with high-density SNP genotyping from many Jewish Diaspora populations, both showed that of the Jewish populations, the Ashkenazi consistently cluster closest to Europeans"
...
"Using these proxy ancestral populations, we calculated the amount of European admixture in the AJ (Ashkenazi Jewish) population to be 35 to 55%."

And from then from the work of academic Avshalom Zoossmann-Diskin a geneticist from "Tel Aviv University" (that sits on land stolen from the Palestinian village of Shaykh Al-Muwannis. Modern "Tel Aviv-Yafo" aka Yaffa sits on the land of seven destroyed and looted Palestinian villages: "Zochrot has documented 7 Palestinian villages on which Tel Aviv is built: Shaykh Muwannis, Summayl, Jammasin al-Gharbi, al-Manshyyah, Salama, Abu Kabir, Fishermen Village, and Irsheed.")

"According to the autosomal polymorphisms the investigated Jewish populations do NOT share a common origin, and EEJ (Eastern European Jews) are closer to Italians in particular and to Europeans in general than to the other Jewish populations. The similarity of EEJ to Italians and Europeans is also supported by the X chromosomal haplogroups."
...
Conclusions

The close genetic resemblance to Italians accords with the historical presumption that Ashkenazi Jews started their migrations across Europe in Italy and with historical evidence that CONVERSION to Judaism was common in ancient Rome. The reasons for the discrepancy between the biparental markers and the uniparental markers are discussed.
Posted by Brent on August 28, 2012 #145810

Newest stduy: The Missing Link of Jewish European Ancestry: Contrasting the Rhineland and the Khazarian Hypotheses
Eran Elhaik (August 6, 2012) Eran Elhaik, PhD from John Hopkins University

The question of Jewish ancestry has been the subject of controversy for over two centuries and has yet to be resolved. The "Rhineland Hypothesis" proposes that Eastern European Jews emerged from a small group of German Jews who migrated eastward and expanded rapidly. Alternatively, the "Khazarian Hypothesis" suggests that Eastern European descended from Judean tribes who joined the Khazars, an amalgam of Turkic clans that settled the Caucasus in the early centuries CE and converted to Judaism in the 8th century. The Judaized Empire was continuously reinforced with Mesopotamian and Greco-Roman Jews until the 13th century. Following the collapse of their empire, the Judeo-Khazars fled to Eastern Europe. The rise of European Jewry is therefore explained by the contribution of the Judeo-Khazars. Thus far, however, their contribution has been estimated only empirically; the absence of genome-wide data from Caucasus populations precluded testing the Khazarian Hypothesis. Recent sequencing of modern Caucasus populations prompted us to revisit the Khazarian Hypothesis and compare it with the Rhineland Hypothesis. We applied a wide range of population genetic analyses - including principal component, biogeographical origin, admixture, identity by descent, allele sharing distance, and uniparental analyses - to compare these two hypotheses. Our findings support the Khazarian Hypothesis and portray the European Jewish genome as a mosaic of Caucasus, European, and Semitic ancestries, thereby consolidating previous contradictory reports of Jewish ancestry.
Posted by dirk on April 19, 2012 #143308

Knowing and confirming that jews are not Israel, should make us ask: WHO then are the true Israelites? Precious few ever get past the jewish question. Find out who are the people of Jacob, Isaac and Abraham - do yourself a favour. Cheers
Posted by Brent on April 5, 2012 #143005

Responding to the lies of "Martin" and his Zionist "news" source bs by the Jewish owned media.

Quote- THE SCAM OF JEWISH GENETICS.

Mr. Scholomo Sand is right. His theory is supported by common-sense and volumes of other literature.

I have looked at these studies that are reported in the media showing genetic linkage between Judaists (people who are called “Jews”.

Most of these studies are defective. They DO NOT prove that all Judaists are linked genetically and distinct from all other people.

Most of these studies are sponsored by Judaists, and carried out by Judaists at Jewish institutions. After some genetic analysis, the authors publish papers with misleading titles, suggesting they have proven Jewish genetic linkage. The authors then put out press releases claiming to have “proven” that all Judaists are genetically related and distinct from all other people. The media, much of it Jewish controlled, reports this non-sense in hundreds of newspapers and magazines, where thousands of people read it and get misled.

Very few people bother to go and read the actual paper. Even fewer still bother to get data from the authors and verify the data or the statistical methods used.

I have read and couple of these papers proving Jewish genetic linkage and found them to be quite unreliable.

One study, with a sensational title, purported to show that on a scatter diagram, the Judaists and non-Judaists form distinct areas. On reading through it, it was clear that authors entire thesis had collapsed. The data that did not fit the theory they set out to prove (i.e. Judaists who were genetically different) was removed as “outliers.” This is called selection bias, and invalidates the study. Secondly, the authors, unable to find any gene that was unique to the Jewish group, claim to have used a “combination”. However, nowhere in the paper they specify this combination.

Since everybody is unique (except for idential twins), we all have a unique set of genes. By using a complex enough combination I can prove that all the people, even if they are all of the same race, in one town are genetically related and distinct from all the people in the other town (assuming there are no identical twins, with one of them in each town). This does not have to be a town; it can be any collection, such as stockholders of a company and non-stocholders, rich vs. poor, people born in January vs. February, people born in even year or on even date vs. odd date.

How? Let us assume there are only 3 genes, and only 2 people in each group called North and South Towns as follows:

North Town South Town
ABC DEF
UVW XYZ

I now create a super-variable SUPER that is a function of the combination of genes, as follows:

If Genes = ABC or genes = UVW then SUPER = 1.
If Genes = DEF or genes = XYZ then SUPER = 2.

If I put them on a one dimensional axis, North Town will be clustered at 1 and South Town at 2 on a scatter diagram. I would have then proven that using a Super variable that looks at all the genes, North Town people are genetically related and distinct from South Town people.

Are they really? They are not at all!

Selection bias (such as excluding black Judaists), small sample size, non-random samples, using samples of people already likely to be related, and convoluted super-variables designed to prove what they want to prove, false conclusions and false press releases are some of the common tactics used by the so-called “scientists” trying to prove Jewish relatedness.
...
And then on so-called "Jewish mothers" they are NOT related!

Quote- Jewish females from the same backgrounds, on the other hand, yield opposite results: their mitochondrial DNA has markedly less resemblance to that of Jewish women from elsewhere than it does to that of non-Jewish women in the countries their families hailed from. ... In the absence of rabbis to perform conversions, they [male Jewish immigrants to new lands] married local women who, while consenting to live as Jews, were NOT halakhically Jewish

end quote.
Posted by Martin on April 4, 2012 #142984

Being genetically linked with people who currently live in Turkey does not make Jewish people indigenous Turks anymore than it makes Palestinians, Syrians or Lebanese into people of Turkish origin. The genetic makeup of the Turkish nation is not a mystery, and it is clear that they are genetically related to people of the Middle East, of the Southern Europe and North Africa; with YDNA predominantly belonging to E3b, G, J, I, R1a, R1b, K and T groups(78%).

For scientific analysis of Jewish DNA, the research paper 'Abraham’s Children in the Genome Era: Major Jewish Diaspora Populations Comprise Distinct Genetic Clusters with Shared Middle Eastern Ancestry', is a sound piece of research and for MtDNA I would recommend 'Founding Mothers of Jewish Communities: Geographically Separated Jewish Groups Were Independently Founded by Very Few Female Ancestors'.

As for Professor Sand, his is a political narrative and neither relates to the modern genetic knowledge or to objectively based historical analysis.

If there is to be a sustainable solution to the Middle East conflict it needs to be based on the facts and the firm application of equal rights and not groundless fantasies which seek to marginalise and oppress one people or another!
Posted by Brent on March 22, 2012 #142636

To add to and refute more claims of "Paul" who I debated with here back in 2009. Paul doesn't respond to the fact that ALL Jewish scholars (i.e. Talmudic Jewish scholars) since Talmudic times have completely agreed that to be considered "Jewish" (i.e. in an alleged "ethnic" sense) the only way you can get this definition is to be born to a "Jewish mother" (i.e. this is the 100% agreed upon belief of all legitimate Orthodox Rabbis of Judaism again since Talmudic times till today). Judaism allegedly allows "converts" (and Judaism certainly was a converting religion in old times see Professor Shlomo Sand (a Professor of history from "Tel Aviv" University) and his work "The Invention of the Jewish People"

Quote- Sand’s answer is rather simple, yet it makes a lot of sense. “The people did not spread, but the Jewish religion spread. Judaism was a converting religion. Contrary to popular opinion, in early Judaism there was a great thirst to convert others.”
...
“The Hasmoneans,” says Sand (14) “were the first to begin to produce large numbers of Jews through mass conversion, under the influence of Hellenism. It was this tradition of conversions that prepared the ground for the subsequent, widespread dissemination of Christianity. After the victory of Christianity in the 4th century, the momentum of conversion was stopped in the Christian world, and there was a steep drop in the number of Jews. Presumably many of the Jews who appeared around the Mediterranean became Christians. But then Judaism started to permeate other regions - pagan regions, for example, such as Yemen and North Africa. Had Judaism not continued to advance at that stage and had it not continued to convert people in the pagan world, we would have remained a completely marginal religion, if we survived at all.”

end quote.
But "converts" are generally looked down upon (i.e. Rabbis are to reject their attempt at "conversion" 3 times before relenting, and much more). For example:

Quote- Even those few Gentiles who convert to Judaism with no attendant romantic interest in a Jew find their sincerity demeaned in the Jewish community. "It is assumed by those of a negative bent," says Brenda Forster, "even when the facts are known to be otherwise, that ... converts ... have convert[ed] for utilitarian reasons." [FORSTER, p. 76] Jewish identity, Laurence Epstein warns would-be converts, "... is something of an ethnocentric nature, such as the view that converts are not really Jewish, that only someone born Jewish could truly understand how a Jew feels." [EPSTEIN, p. 52]

end quote.

This article goes on to quote modern Jews saying that you really can't ever "convert" to Judaism, and that even if you in theory do somehow "convert" your never really accepted as a "true" Jew by the synagogue community, etc.

And again as Paul tried to respond to me, the genetic studies show that Jewish women around the world have VERY DIFFERENT genetic data! Again; Quote- Third, so far genetic research on the Semitic claim tends to focus more on the non-recombining parts of the male Y-Chromosome rather than on the maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA of the Jews, which has defined ؟Jewishness؟ since Talmudic times.

end quote.

Jewish magazine- Hillel Halkin. "Jews and Their DNA." Commentary Magazine (September 2008). Excerpts: "Early studies of mitochondrial DNA reported that Jewish women, unlike Jewish men, did not correlate well with one another globally.

Quote- "Early studies of mitochondrial DNA reported that Jewish women, unlike Jewish men, did not correlate well with one another globally.
...
Jewish females from the same backgrounds, on the other hand, yield opposite results: their mitochondrial DNA has markedly less resemblance to that of Jewish women from elsewhere than it does to that of non-Jewish women in the countries their families hailed from. ... In the absence of rabbis to perform conversions, they [Jewish immigrants to new lands] married local women who, while consenting to live as Jews, were not halakhically Jewish.

end quote.
Posted by Brent on March 26, 2011 #131991

"Webmaster" very interesting point about the Turkish being very closely matched with the white Ashkenazi European Jews. This adds to the wonderful genetic research conducted by Dr. Ariella Oppenheim (of Hebrew University in "Israel") and her team. One famous quote from Dr. Ariella Oppenheim's work that can be found at a ncbi . gov link called "The Y Chromosome Pool of Jews as Part of the Genetic Landscape of the Middle East". The quote says: "In comparison with data available from other relevant populations in the region, Jews were found to be more closely related to groups in the north of the Fertile Crescent (Kurds, Turks, and Armenians) than to their Arab neighbors."

So note Jews (Khazars) were found to be closely related to Kurds, Turkish Turks of Anatolia, and Armenians! Armenians lived and live up near the Caucasus Mountains region where the Khazar Empire was located.
Posted by Webmaster on March 6, 2011 #131208

I just watched the following National Geographic documentary called:The Human Family Tree which you can watch on NetFlix as follows:

http://www.netflix.com/Movie/National-Geographic-The-Human-Family-Tree/70122464

Briefly, it attempted to trace the DNA of a sample of people from all different races in NY City. It is over 90 minutes and exciting to watch. It compared African Americans, Porto Ricans, Turkish, Indian, Greek, ...etc. The narrator reached the family tree of every body except the Turkish couple after he matched everybody. Then he finally said these Turkish couple had 50% match with Achkenazic Jews. Go Figure; do you think that is a surprise!

When the dust settles and when the this subject is no longer political for Zionist Jews, we shall find how these researchers & scientists of such studies have been biased (or influenced) in their judgments and conclusions. Note how most of these studies carefully compared Jews to most races except to Turkic people!
Posted by Brent on January 10, 2011 #128897

Important points to keep in mind on genetics in Palestine, refuting Zionist hasbara (propaganda) claims:

Dr. Ariella Oppenheim (a famous "Israeli" geneticist, herself an "Israeli" Jew working at Hebrew University in "Israel")did a famous genetic study. Who were the original and ongoing (since neolithic times) inhabitant­s of Palestine e/Israel? Arabs, who converted to Judaism, Christiani­ty, and now Islam

Results of a DNA study by geneticist Ariella Oppenheim appears to match historical accounts that Arab Israelis and Palestinia­ns,[15][16­] together as the one same population­, represent modern "descendan­ts of a core population that lived in the area since prehistori­c times", albeit religiousl­y first Christiani­zed then largely Islamized, and all eventually culturally Arabized.[­15] Referring to those of the Muslim faith more specifical­ly, it reaffirmed that Palestinia­n "Muslim Arabs are descended from Christians and Jews who lived in the southern Levant, a region that includes Israel, Sinai and part of Jordan." Geneticist Michael Hammer praised "the study for 'focusing in detail on the Jewish and Palestinia­n population­s.'"[15]
Posted by Brent on January 10, 2011 #128895

It is very nice to hear your individual family ancestry Jamal. The land of Palestine (like other Middle Eastern centers of civilization like say Egypt, Syria, Iraq, etc.) have been ruled by so many different dynasties and peoples. Mixing has definitely occurred in them. However it is the Zionists in their racist (eugenics) like philosophy that claims they are an allegedly "racially pure" "Jewish" group: when nothing could be further from the case! In fact the really sick thing is the Zionists themselves use Nazi "racial law" in Zionist "Israeli" law regarding who they consider to be a "Jew" and thus eligible for "Jewish" citizenship in apartheid Zionist "Israel".
Posted by Jamal Kussad on December 29, 2010 #128361

As a member of the Kussad/Qussad family, I will share that our Y-DNA test revealed that we belong to haplogroup: R1a1a, which is a "Slavic" marker which came from Europe north of the Black Sea. In particular, I also have autosomal chromosome segment matches with individuals in Slovakia and Poland. Our line appears to be descended from a common ancestor that we share with the Levites (Khazar origin) of Ukraine and Poland. The Mongols invaded Central and Eastern Europe in 1241, and many of the inhabitants were either killed or sent to the slave markets in Crimea-Ukraine; from there some were purchased as slaves to be sent to the Middle East. The pre-Ottoman mamluks were among these slaves--some famous ones include: Baybars, Qalawun, Shajarat Ad-Durr, Qutuz, Izzeddine Aybak, etc. My ancestor was a mamluk Qased (courier/messenger) for one of the sultans, and he settled in Safad.
Posted by Brent on August 5, 2010 #119070

Hi Ian the answer to your question regarding Yiddish is actually in one of the links to this page; that is the article from Haaretz entitled "Shattering a national mythology" wherein Prof. Shlomo Sand is interviewed. On this issue of Yiddish he says:

If the Jews of Eastern Europe did not come from Germany, why did they speak Yiddish, which is a Germanic language?

"The Jews were a class of people dependent on the German bourgeoisie in the East, and thus they adopted German words. Here I base myself on the research of linguist Paul Wechsler of Tel Aviv University, who has demonstrated that there is no etymological connection between the German Jewish language of the Middle Ages and Yiddish. As far back as 1828, the Ribal (Rabbi Isaac Ber Levinson) said that the ancient language of the Jews was not Yiddish. Even Ben Zion Dinur, the father of Israeli historiography, was not hesitant about describing the Khazars as the origin of the Jews in Eastern Europe, and describes Khazaria as 'the mother of the diasporas' in Eastern Europe. But more or less since 1967, anyone who talks about the Khazars as the ancestors of the Jews of Eastern Europe is considered naive and moonstruck."
Posted by Ian on July 14, 2010 #117552

This discussion contains many interesting sub-threads. May I point out a new and very scholarly contribution to many of these: Shlomo Sand, "The Invention of the Jewish People". E.g. he uses the archaeological record and some simple agricultural statistics to show that the 'great kingdoms' of David and Solomon could only have been tiny settlements with no buildings beyond 'shacks'.
Oh yes, Sand is an Ashkenakim and Yiddish speaker. Which leads me to a question for you more knowledgable than I. I know enough German to see that spoken Yiddish is pretty similar structurally. But Germanic is believed to originate in northern Europe and Khazars were part of a generally Mongol diaspora. How did their language get to be so germanic?
Posted by Brent on May 17, 2010 #112748

A great point is made in this following article; from khazaria website: "Early studies of mitochondrial DNA reported that Jewish women, unlike Jewish men, did not correlate well with one another globally ... In the absence of rabbis to perform conversions, they [Jewish immigrants to new lands] married local women who, while consenting to live as Jews, were not halakhically Jewish

end quote.

Note that traditional Talmudic Judaism from early on has always stated that being allegedly somehow "racially Jewish" (note: Judaism is a religion not a race) is completely from matrilineal descent. This means since "Jewish women" do not correlate with each other globally there can be no "Jewish race" because the "Jewish mothers" are all converts and not even "Israelite" (whatever that means to start with as Canaanites once ruled the land and so did others).
Posted by Brent on February 16, 2010 #103930

Responding to David Ben-Ariel. Again read from the work of a renowned geneticist Almut Nebel; from the work of Nebel et al. 2001; Quote- Jews were found to be more closely related to groups in the north of the Fertile Crescent (Kurds, Turks, and Armenians) than to their Arab neighbors.
end quote.
These are the Arab neighbors are Levantines who have been Arabized over time. And look as to where the Khazar Jewish Empire was located, it is near modern Armenia in the Caucasuses. Also in NY Times it showed 52% of Ashkenazi Levites have mDNA from Central Asia around the Caucasus and old Khazar lands!
Posted by David Ben-Ariel on February 14, 2010 #103698

Google "Koestler, Khazars, Kaput" by Barry Chamish and let the truth set you free.
Posted by Brent on December 15, 2009 #97950

As for Paul, again you claim "Israelite" DNA, one huge problem there is NO "biblical DNA", heck most of the "Bible" has been proven to be fraud myths not "history" such as the alleged "kingdoms" and such. Also again; Quote- However, a follow-up study [Nebel et al. 2001] corrected that Jews were found to be more closely related to the peoples north of the Fertile Crescent (Kurds, Turkish "Turks" of Anatolia, and Armenians) than to the Arabic-speakers of Israel/Palestinian and other neighboring now Arabic-speaking Levantines.[101][102]
...
The history of that land goes back farther then the alleged "Israelites" with all different types of people from Canaanites, to the other countless tribes.
Posted by Simchah on December 14, 2009 #97827

Genetic variants have been found amongst Ashkeanzic Levites. There is no reason to assume all Ashkenazic Jews have these markers. Why are people saying all Askenazic jews are descended from Khazars, when only this one sub group seems to possibly be?
Posted by Ron on December 12, 2009 #97695

The Khazars were typical caucasus people. They were not Eastern Europeans/Slavs or wholly Mongol/Central asian either. They were similar to Armenians genetically. In fact if you compare modern day chechens and dagestanis they also cluster near the Armenians, and Turks in the same way that the Ashkenazi khazars do, even more so than palestinians.
Posted by Paul on December 3, 2009 #96912

The Nebel research showed that a certain amount of non-Israelite genes entered the Jewish community. That has long been known. It does not change the fact Israelite genes are there. And it's well known that many (if not most) Arabs in Eretz Hakodesh are descended from converted Jews.

Also, please do not accuse the Talmud of preaching hate of gentiles. Many take parts of it out of context to make that appear so, but it is not the case.
Posted by Brent on December 3, 2009 #96830

Take your Talmud thumping hate of the "goyim" elsewhere. Again; Quote- However, a follow-up study [Nebel et al. 2001] corrected that Jews were found to be more closely related to the peoples north of the Fertile Crescent (Kurds, Turkish "Turks" of Anatolia, and Armenians) than to the Arabic-speakers of Israel/Palestinian and other neighboring now Arabic-speaking Levantines.[101][102]
...
Results of a DNA study by geneticist Ariella Oppenheim appears to match historical accounts that Arab Israelis and Palestinians,[13][14] together as the one same population, represent modern "descendants of a core population that lived in the area since prehistoric times", albeit religiously first Christianized then largely Islamized, and all eventually culturally Arabized.[13] Referring to those of the Muslim faith more specifically, it reaffirmed that Palestinian "Muslim Arabs are descended from Christians and Jews who lived in the southern Levant, a region that includes Israel, Sinai and part of Jordan." Geneticist Michael Hammer praised "the study for 'focusing in detail on the Jewish and Palestinian populations.'"[13]
Posted by Paul on December 2, 2009 #96818

And people need to keep in mind that Jews lived in Europe since at least Roman times. Jews were in Germany from at least the 400's CE. That is actually where we find the origin of Ashkenazic Jewry
Posted by Paul on December 1, 2009 #96733

Oh, of course the Kohen Haplotype does not prove there was an Aaron or anything...it just shows clearly how many Ashkenazic Jews have genetic similarities to people who live in the Near East. The idea that all Ashkenazic Jews are converted Khazars is therefore proven false
Posted by Paul on December 1, 2009 #96732

The book Genetics and Tradition says that the mitochondrial DNA seems to have generally come from a local population in most Diaspora groups, even those not in Europe. However, just because your mom is a convert does not mean you are not born a member of Am Yisroel. Quite the contrary - King David himself was descended from a woman who converted! And comparing the DNA along certain Y Chromosomal lines, we see how closely Jews such as Kohanim resemble Arabs. The only real irregularities along Y Chromosomal lines in Jews seem to be in people with traditions of being Levites. This is, I believe, what that 2001 study you mention was referring to. Because Ashkenazim are more closely realted to other Jewish groups along most Y markers than they are Europeans. But even a convert from Japan, who just made his giur yesterday, is a full fledged member of Am Yisroel and has every right to settle in Eretz Yisroel...so it would not even matter if these claims that all Ashkenazim are purely descended from Khazars should be true (of course, these claims have been proven false, anyway)
Posted by Brent on November 27, 2009 #96258

What jokes "Paul"; from an "Israeli" genetic scientist: Results of a DNA study by geneticist Ariella Oppenheim appears to match historical accounts that Arab Israelis and Palestinians,[13][14] together as the one same population, represent modern "descendants of a core population that lived in the area since prehistoric times", albeit religiously first Christianized then largely Islamized, and all eventually culturally Arabized.[13] Referring to those of the Muslim faith more specifically, it reaffirmed that Palestinian "Muslim Arabs are descended from Christians and Jews who lived in the southern Levant, a region that includes Israel, Sinai and part of Jordan."
More refuting "Paul" on alleged "Jewish" (not even a race)- s upon which the research questions were formulated and the samples were selected. First, we do no have for sure any genetic material or DNA from the Biblical Israelites to compare and contrast with any existing genetic material or DNA from contemporary Jews. There is no proof that Michael Hammer؟s ؟cohanim markers؟ were those of Moses؟ brother, Aaron. Second, the Jews (like the Muslims and the Christians) were historically bound by religion (and are highly mixed), not by race or genes. Today the percentage of U.S. Jews under 35 who are married to non-Jews is 41 percent (Goodstein 2003). Third, so far genetic research on the Semitic claim tends to focus more on the non-recombining parts of the male Y-Chromosome rather than on the maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA of the Jews, which has defined ؟Jewishness؟ since Talmudic times.
Jewish law says you have to have an alleged "Jewish mother" to be considered "ethnically" Jewish (which is a misnomer to begin with as Judaism is a religion NOT a race!). Research shows us different "Jewish" women around the world do not have the same type of mitochondrial DNA (mDNA) which is only given to children from women. We read from a Jewish magazine- Hillel Halkin. "Jews and Their DNA." Commentary Magazine (September 2008). Excerpts: "Early studies of mitochondrial DNA reported that Jewish women, unlike Jewish men, did not correlate well with one another globally. Meaning there are NO "Jewish" people, and no relation between "Jewish" women around the world who according to Jewish law (i.e. Talmudic law, etc.) have to give birth to the "Jewish" children.
Lastly, the dagger refuting the claims made by "Paul". Genetic scientists tell us; Quote- However, a follow-up study [Nebel et al. 2001] corrected that Jews were found to be more closely related to the peoples north of the Fertile Crescent (Kurds, Turkish "Turks" of Anatolia, and Armenians) than to the Arabic-speakers of Israel/Palestinian and other neighboring now Arabic-speaking Levantines.[101][102] 101- Nebel et al. 2001, The Y Chromosome Pool of Jews as Part of the Genetic Landscape of the Middle East, Ann Hum Genet. 2001 Mar;70(2):195-206.[6] 102- Muir, Diana. "Genetics and the Jewish identity". Jpost.com. Levantines have true Palestinian DNA, unlike the Khazar "Jews" who are much more closely related to the Kurds, Turks, and Armenians north of the Fertile crescent region.
Posted by Paul on November 25, 2009 #96193

I also have to say the theory of Ashkenazim being descended from Khazars is ridiculous, as Jews were living in Europe for at least 1,000 years before the Khazarian conversions. Basically, studies show as follows: the main ethnic element of Ashkenazim (German and Eastern European Jews), Sephardim (Spanish and Portuguese Jews), Mizrachim (Middle Eastern Jews), Juhurim (Mountain Jews of the Caucasus), Italqim (Italian Jews), and most other modern Jewish populations of the world is Israelite. The Israelite haplotypes fall into Y-DNA haplogroups J and E.

But that is not to say there has not been admixture, mind you, especially amongst the Ashkenazic Leviim who apparently may be descended from Khazars who decided to place themselves in positions they shouldn't have been. However, the strange genetic variants found amongst these Levites is not found along the Y Chromosomal lines of Ashkenazic Kohanim, who have the same genetic line as other Kohen groups (dating back 3,000 to the Near East)
Posted by Paul on November 25, 2009 #96192

There are many ancient Hebrew words in Yiddish...
Posted by Brent on November 20, 2009 #95595

More great info on these topics;
Quote- Results of a DNA study by geneticist Ariella Oppenheim appears to match historical accounts that Arab Israelis and Palestinians,[13][14] together as the one same population, represent modern "descendants of a core population that lived in the area since prehistoric times", albeit religiously first Christianized then largely Islamized, and all eventually culturally Arabized.[13] Referring to those of the Muslim faith more specifically, it reaffirmed that Palestinian "Muslim Arabs are descended from Christians and Jews who lived in the southern Levant, a region that includes Israel, Sinai and part of Jordan." Geneticist Michael Hammer praised "the study for 'focusing in detail on the Jewish and Palestinian populations.'"[13]
13. Gibbons, Ann (October 30, 2000). "Jews and Arabs Share Recent Ancestry". ScienceNOW. American Academy for the Advancement of Science.
14. a b Hammer, et al. Figure 2: Plot of populations based on Y-chromosome haplotype data.
Posted by Brent on September 21, 2009 #89554

While both the Palestinians and the world's distinct Jewish populations have mixed with invading and host populations respectively, Oppenheim's team found "that Jews have mixed more with other populations, which makes sense because they were more likely to leave the Levant.".[12]
...
However, a follow-up study [Nebel et al. 2001] corrected that Jews were found to be more closely related to the peoples north of the Fertile Crescent (Kurds, Turkish "Turks" of Anatolia, and Armenians) than to the Arabic-speakers of Israel/Palestinian and other neighbouring now Arabic-speaking Levantines.[98][99]
98) Nebel et al. 2001, The Y Chromosome Pool of Jews as Part of the Genetic Landscape of the Middle East, Ann Hum Genet. 2001 Mar;70(2):195-206.
99) Muir, Diana. "Genetics and the Jewish identity". Jpost
Posted by Latin Lover on September 7, 2009 #88346

To BRITISH QUAKER:Read "Facts are facts". By Benjamin Freedman.
Posted by Latin Lover on September 7, 2009 #88345

To British Quaker:Before it became know as "Yiddish" language, the khazars added words from German, Slavonic, and the Baltic lan
guages.The "Yiddish" language is not a German dialect.The khazars
language adopted Hebrew characters.There is not one word of "yiddish" in ancient Hebrew-nor is there one word of ancient Hebrew in "yiddish". Source:Facts are facts" By Benjamin Freedman
Posted by Brent on August 20, 2009 #86831

Also in Jewish religious law we find that to be an alleged member of the "Jewish race" you had to have a Jewish mother: i.e. Jewish law says "Judaism" is matrilineal or completely "inherited" from the mother. We read from a Jewish magazine- Hillel Halkin. "Jews and Their DNA." Commentary Magazine (September 2008). Excerpts:
"Early studies of mitochondrial DNA reported that Jewish women, unlike Jewish men, did not correlate well with one another globally.
...
Jewish females from the same backgrounds, on the other hand, yield opposite results: their mitochondrial DNA has markedly less resemblance to that of Jewish women from elsewhere than it does to that of non-Jewish women in the countries their families hailed from. ... In the absence of rabbis to perform conversions, they [Jewish immigrants to new lands] married local women who, while consenting to live as Jews, were not halakhically Jewish.
Posted by Brent on August 20, 2009 #86828

Also the truth that the Palestinians are the descendants of the native, indigenous people of the land of Palestine was admitted by one of the great pre-state Zionist thinkers Ahad Haam. About him- Asher Zvi Hirsch Ginsberg (18 August 1856 - 2 January 1927), primarily known by his Hebrew name and pen name, Ahad Ha'am, (Hebrew: אחד העם‎, lit. one of the people, Genesis 26:10), was a Hebrew essayist, and one of the foremost pre-state Zionist thinkers. With his secular vision of a Jewish "spiritual center" in Palestine he confronted Theodor Herzl. Unlike Herzl, the founder of political Zionism, Ha'am strived for "a Jewish state and not merely a state of Jews."[1]
...
Ahad Ha'am also shared the belief that: "the Moslems [of Palestine] are the ancient residents of the land ... who became Christians on the rise of Christianity and became Moslems on the arrival of Islam."[79] David Ben-Gurion and Yitzhak Ben Zvi wrote in 1918 that Palestinian peasants and their mode of life were living historical testimonies to Israelite practices in the biblical period.[80]
Posted by Brent on August 20, 2009 #86827

More good scholarly quotes- However, a follow-up study [Nebel et al. 2001] corrected that Jews were found to be more closely related to the peoples north of the Fertile Crescent (Kurds, Turkish "Turks" of Anatolia, and Armenians) than to the Arabic-speakers of Israel/Palestinian and other neighbouring now Arabic-speaking Levantines.[96][97] The same study then re-asserted the suggestion that Palestinians and Bedouins from the Levant represent "early lineages derived from the Neolithic inhabitants of the area" albeit with "additional lineages from more-recent population movements", largely from the Arabian Peninsula.
...

Following the Muslim conquest of Syria by Arabians, the formerly-introduced dominant languages of the area, Aramaic and Greek, were then replaced by the Arabic language introduced by the new conquering administrative minority.[101] Among the cultural survivals from pre-Islamic times are the significant Palestinian Christian community, and smaller Jewish and Samaritan ones, as well as an Aramaic and possibly Hebrew sub-stratum in the local Palestinian Arabic dialect.[102]
Posted by Brent on August 20, 2009 #86826

Here are some good scholarly things refuting Zionists about DNA and genetics all with sources- Results of a DNA study by geneticist Ariella Oppenheim appears to match historical accounts that Arab Israelis and Palestinians,[12][95] together as the one same population, represent modern "descendants of a core population that lived in the area since prehistoric times", albeit religiously first Christianized then largely Islamized, and all eventually culturally Arabized.[12]
...
While both the Palestinians and the world's distinct Jewish populations have mixed with invading and host populations respectively, Oppenheim's team found "that Jews have mixed more with other populations, which makes sense because they were more likely to leave the Levant.".[12]
Posted by Brent on April 19, 2009 #74464

European Ashkenazis maternally inherited mDNA shows there is no "Jewish people"; especially among White Khazar Ashkenazis! The only claims made by Zionist propagandist "researchers" are done by looking at the alleged "non-recombing part" of the male Y-Chromosome. Which overlooks the fact that in Jewish law "Jewishness" is inherited from the mother only! Meaning what is important to study is the maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA (aka mDNA). After studying this it shows that Ashkenazis have a "local origin" meaning local to EUROPE and Central Asia (i.e. Khazars). Judaism is a religion and not a race, anyway.
Posted by British Quaker on March 4, 2009 #69532

Long ago I read Arthur Koestler's The Thirteenth Tribe and was fascinated by it, but questions about language puzzled me.

The Khazars were a Turkic people and spoke a Turkic language. If modern Ashkenazi Jews are descended from them, how did they end up speaking Yiddish [Juedisch] which is essentially a dialect of German with borrowings from other languages (notably Hebrew) and with Hebrew script. Yiddish appears to have been the language of Jewish communities from Germany eastward, deep into Russia. I can understand that these people might, if they had been persecuted in western Europe (including England, France and Germany) carry their established tongue as they migrated eastward into Poland and Lithuania where they were at first encouraged by those governments. They might retain the Yiddish language, which they had presumably acquired while living in Germany, but why had they not earlier carried the Khazarian Turkish tongue westward?

Can anyone throw any light on this?
Posted by Anonymous American on January 16, 2009 #64044

The history of the Khazars is important, and the fact that most (all?) Ashkenazi Jews are descended from the Khazars is even more important, because a great deal of support for the modern nation-state of Israel comes from Protestant Christians in America.

There is a great deal of Dispensational theology running throughout American Protestantism. The Dispensationalists misinterpret Genesis 12:1-2, thinking it applies to the modern nation-state of Israel, rather than to Christ. Therefore, they support Israel no matter how much evil Israel commits.

If the truth about the Khazaric nature of the Ashkenazi Jews were to become wide-spread knowledge amongst American Protestants -- even if they were to continue to hold to their Dispensationalist theological errors -- they might recognize the evil the Jews are committing and oppose it. In such a case, they would recognize that the Zionists are not descendants of Abraham, and are therefore not covered by the promise in Genesis 12:1-2.

If only the Dispensational Protestants knew their Bible better, this wouldn't matter. After all, "not all who are descended from Israel are Israel"!! (Romans 9:6) The Bible is very clear that it doesn't matter whether you are a Jew or a Gentile. God is gathering to Himself a People from every nation on the earth.

But given that the Dispensationalists do not know their Bibles very well (at least, they do not know the verse in Romans cited above), it may help to point out to them that the murderous Zionists currently running the modern nation-state of Israel are in no way descendants of Abraham.

Lord Have Mercy!!
Posted by gsadell on September 13, 2008 #52040

Fantastic! absorbing reading.
Posted by truth0644 on May 14, 2008 #37965

hi i just want to say thankyou for the information and i am a highschool student and it would be helpful if you guys could send info 2 me
Posted by dubliner on March 11, 2008 #31364

As there is no such thing as "Jewish race" how can the Palestinians be expected to recognise Israel as a Jewish state?
Maybe an Ashkenazi state?
Posted by Brent on October 28, 2007 #22493

Note on the Khazars and their links to today's Ashkenazi white European Jews.
THE JEWISH ENCYCLOPEDIA: "Khazars, a NON- SEMITIC, ASIATIC, MONGOLIAN TRIBAL NATION who emigrated into Eastern Europe about the first century, who were converted as an entire nation to Judaism in the seventh century by the expanding Russian nation which absorbed the entire Khazar population, and who account for the presence in Eastern Europe of the great numbers of Yiddish-speaking Jews in Russia, Poland, Lithuania, Galatia, Besserabia and Rumania."
Posted by Brent on October 28, 2007 #22492

Today's Askhenazi white European Jews without any doubt have much of their genetic make-up from the Khazar Jewish converts. The Khazar king, Bulan, was the first to convert to Judaism. Later on after Bulan, another Khazar king named Obadiah soldified the complete Khazar kingdom's conversion to Judaism. This Khazar king Obadiah is famous for having led a major push to build synagogues, Jewish Talmudic law schools, and in general promote and impose the Jewish faith on the Khazar people. The Khazars mixed with other European and maybe some other genetics are Askhenazis.
Posted by Karem Alhams on October 6, 2007 #21316

I am not sure as to what this story about Khazars has to do with this site?
Posted by Brent on September 11, 2007 #20300

SBaram: I agree we must find a just solution. But can you tell me how it is just to refuse to allow Palestinian's living in refugee camps in Lebanon, Iraq, etc. whose families up until 1948 were living in Palestine. These people actually have parent's and grandparent's that lived and had heritage for thousands of years in Palestine. Somehow these people aren't allowed to return home to Palestine, but European Ashkenazi Jews with very little or no Semitic blood due to Jewish intermarriage in Gentile Europe for 2000+ yrs. and Khazar conversions, etc. to come to "Eretz Israel". And the hist. of David and Solomon is hotly debated the only proof of David the "biblical" character is from 1 inscription at the place called Tel Dan other than that all historical evidences goes against any massive Nile-to-Eurphates Hebrew Judaic Kingdom!
Posted by SBaram on September 5, 2007 #19963

What does the story of the Khazars have to do with Palestine?
#2: How do you know that the Khazar military was Muslim? What relevence is it in the Palestinian plight?
#3: The Caliphate lost its attempt to rule the Khazar Empire, so what? Later, Khazaria succumbed to more powerful Byzantium and the Rus, So what?
More important - Palestine Remembered lists hundreds of Palestinian villages usurped by the Israelis. No attempt has been made to show which villages were Palestinian, and which villages were inhabited by foreigners, like Circassians, Serbs, Iraqis or Turks.
Separation of ethnic groups is not important when seeking a just solution. But to validate claims, if claimants migrated to and from Palestine, many ancient claims on the land may be overruled.
Let us seek justice, not victory based on stories of Khazar Jews, night flights to Haram al-Sharif, or denial of Davidic history.
Posted by brad gorm on July 5, 2007 #17729

2 things to stress: 1) Khazaria was the FIRST independent state in the territory of Russia. 2) The army and most of the generals of Khazaria were overwhelmingly Muslim. There is no reference that the Muslim military of civilians were ever disloyal to the Khazar Jewish regime. 3) After a few early attempts at conquest, the Caliphate lived at peace with Khazaria for Khazaria's final centuries. The Byzantines and Russ, both Christian, invaded and destroyed the Khazar state.